Steve Cuden: On today’s StoryBeat.

Michael Mason: You know, it’s not the end of the world if it’s something you’re checking out and it doesn’t work out, that’s fine. But if you really got a heart for it, pursue it. Get a good teacher and don’t let anybody ever say to you that you’re not good enough, because you are. Deep down, we’re all good enough. There’s certain talents that everybody has. You don’t have to be a James Galway. You don’t have to be a John Coltrane to make your mark.

Steve Cuden: This is Story Beat with Steve Cuden.

Announcer: A podcast for the creative mind. StoryBeat explores how masters of creativity develop and produce brilliant works that people everywhere love and admire. So join us, as we discover how talented creators find success in the worlds of imagination and entertainment. Here now is your host, Steve Cuden. 

Steve Cuden: Thanks for joining us on StoryBeat. We’re coming to you from the Steel City, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. While making a return for his third appearance on StoryBeat, my guest today is the great jazz and world flutist, Michael Mason. Michael’s been a professional musician and composer for 40 years while simultaneously working in the fire service of the Downers Grove, Illinois Fire Department. Recently retiring at the rank of lieutenant, Michael is one of the first responders from the Chicago area who flew to New York City just days after the destruction of the World Trade Center. He helped the New York City Fire Department and the Port Authority for many weeks. In 2024, Michael released his latest album called Luminosity, which follows up 2023’s impermanence, transcendence in 2022 and human revolution in 2021. All are original jazz and world music compositions which received approval for voting from the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences for Grammy Award consideration. Michael’s musical influences come from James Newton, Ian Anderson, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Eric Dolphi, Sun Raw, Yussef Latief, and James Galway. I’ve listened multiple times to each of his excellent records and can tell you Michael’s impressive work will instantly soothe your soul with warm, beautiful melodies, gorgeous arrangements, and Michael’s brilliance on the flute. I highly recommend you check out his wonderful recordings and music. Michael is currently in the studio mixing eight new songs for release in 2025 on the AVG Records label, so be sure to look out for that. Michael’s been gracious enough to lend us his radiant composition Moments from Luminosity. Please be sure to stick around at the end of today’s show to give it a listen. So for all those reasons and many more. I’m truly delighted to have the renowned flutist Michael Mason back on StoryBeat today. Michael, welcome to the show for the third time.

Michael Mason: Steven, thank you so much. Glad to be here again. It’s three times. Huh? 

Steve Cuden: Three times. It’s a charm.

Michael Mason: It’s a charm.

Steve Cuden: Charm.

Michael Mason: Thanks for the introduction.

Steve Cuden: Oh, it’s my pleasure, truly. So first of all, I want to say congratulations on your retirement. I’m sure the good people of Downers Groveover deeply grateful to you for your many years of service and I say well done to you. How is retirement treating you?

Michael Mason: Well, I retired from downers in 2012, but I’ve been teaching, at the academies up until last year.

Steve Cuden: Oh, is that right?

Michael Mason: Well, just until last year, so I fully retired December 6th of year.

Steve Cuden: So you’re just barely into it then?

Michael Mason: Well, yeah, yeah, I’m into it, but you know, obviously I’m now I’m into the music, obviously. well, I’ve always been into the music while I’ve been firefighting, but now I’m putting a lot more time in and we’re dealing with a lot of things right now recording wise with the new album coming out called Us. That’s a new al Us. Yeah, it’s called Us. And that’s coming out in April or May of 2025.

Steve Cuden: So in other words, you’re taking full advantage of your newly freed up time from having to be in the fire department.

Michael Mason: Yeah, it’s kind of still running the same. Yeah, I think you’re right. I think we have a little bit more time for me to get all these guys in line with the perspectives that we’re doing. And we just left the the mixing studio the other day and then our engineer just went on to Abbey Road. So we had a little bit of time off. 

Steve Cuden: Wow.

Michael Mason: Yeah, he’s recording it in Abby Road at the Beatles studio, this week or last week.

Steve Cuden: How cool is that?

Michael Mason: Yeah, yeah, so he’s, I guess they play our stuff in the, in the studio while he’s recording the other groups. I think he’s recording, something that’s affiliated with Pink Floyd.

Steve Cuden: Oh, just a little group called Pink Floyd.

Michael Mason: Yeah, just wor re the little group. He, he makes the big money.

Steve Cuden: So I’m wondering, we last spoke in 2023. That was your second appearance. And I’m wondering in the interim year, year and a half if you have actually maybe discovered anything new or learned any new tricks, anything in the music world that is different now.

Michael Mason: Was a year ago, other than composing.

Steve Cuden: So what have you learned that’s new in composing them?

Michael Mason: Well, I’ve created probably at least maybe 15 or 16 compositions.

Steve Cuden: Wow.

Michael Mason: Some of those are going on the new cd. Some of them have already been created. Luminosity I think is the last one you have.

Steve Cuden: Yes, that’s the one that I have most recently.

Michael Mason: Yeah, that’s with the cellos and the violinist, on that. And so the new one is going back to more of another. A lot of drumming, a lot of great guitar players on there. So yeah, I’m just kind of bouncing all over the place. But cello is still on. Ian Makin out of Ukrainian still on there. Yeah, we’re busy.

Steve Cuden: Tell me about the musicians that are on this. You just brought one up. Tell me about who’s on this recording with you.

Michael Mason: The My standby guys are always going to be a gf low on bass and then u, gestling on drums.

Steve Cuden: Es Biscus.

Michael Mason: Well, no, yeah, Es is. I’m getting so confused. I believe he’s on Luminosity. He may not.

Steve Cuden: He’s definitely on Luminosity. I’m looking at the cover of the album right now.

Michael Mason: Thank you. Thank you. So. And that’s about the extent of it, along with the other players.

Steve Cuden: So these are your standby guys?

Michael Mason: It was. It’s me, Geo. Geo. I call him but Geo’that I give him a nickname. he’s my basist and he’s one of the engineers that help assemble a lot of things Pro Tools before we take it over to the big studios. And he’s my bassist, so a lot of times I’ll create the compositions. And Danny comes in and he’s ah, a drummer, percussionist. So he works on Pro Tools too with, along with the hand pan playing. So the hand pans are the stuff that we play with our hands on these drums.

Steve Cuden: Right.

Michael Mason: Create a lot of the backdrop.

Steve Cuden: So let the listeners know what do they do for you musically, compositionally, arrangement wise? How do they help you make the record better beyond just the technical stuff with the computer?

Michael Mason: Well, first of all you got to have my musical idea, you know, that’s got to be laid down. I’ll introduce the patterns and maybe a, A section or a B section and I’ll say this is what we’re kind of going for guys. And. And then they’ll take it. They’ll be like, oh wow, okay, we Got to do this, we got to do that. And then, I usually have the chord structure laid out as well as most of the melodic function of the tune and how it’s traveling. I’ll probably have some type of groove, in other words, and what time signature may be. We’ll be working in seven, eight, you know, six, eight or four, four or whatever it is. And from there is. When we start putting everything together, is.

Steve Cuden: Everything written out on sheets or how do you do it?

Michael Mason: I have my notations on my, I call it scribble. Scribble? Yeah. It’s not. I don’t use actual notation, per se Note, quarter note, eighth note, all that. No, I write down the chords. I write down patterns that go on a line somewhat on a staff, you know, G sharp, the F sharp to G sharp. And I’ll have a notation area of G sharp, A sharp, B or whatever. And that designates maybe the melody line. I don’t want to box them in too much because that doesn’t allow us to explore.

Steve Cuden: You want to do improvisation as you’re recording in the studio?

Michael Mason: Kind of, yeah. When we establish the form in the chords, in the melodic, then we, go for the improvisational aspects of the music. Maybe we’ll extend an area or we even decide who’s going to, take what solos. Once that’s laid down, we usually go after the, hand pan to add in, the modalities or the tonal qualities. You have to understand. I work at a workstation, which is a keyboard that produces massive amounts of sounds of orchestrator works, ethnic works. I can get instruments from Africa on this thing, you know.

Steve Cuden: This is a synthesizer of some sort.

Michael Mason: Yes, I would say it’s a. Yes, it’s a keyboard of a synthesizer type. It’s known as a, As an orchestrator workstation.

Steve Cuden: Are you composing in the studio? Are you composing before you get to the studio?

Michael Mason: I’m in my own home studio composing. I have to lay down the given tracks on my home studio before they come in.

Steve Cuden: I see.

Michael Mason: And then I play it back for them and say, hey, man, this is what I’m thinking about. Or I’ll call them in and say, hey, I got this idea. And I’ll call ge. Come on over, to my studio. I’ve got to lay this down. Let’s find, a click track for it that works, and then he’ll help me.

Steve Cuden: How often do they then contribute something that elevates what you’re working on? All the time or just a little.

Michael Mason: Bit I would say most of the time. Most of the time they have to. I mean, I’ll give them a lot of information, know they know what I want. You know, it’s a question of I may not have. Be able to, express it, Englishly or phonetically to them, you know, but. But they understand when they hear it. They know a lot about my music. And they. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. We get what you’re going for. And they’re always giving me crazy anecdotes like, what time signature are we in now, Michael? I said we’re in, 22 8.

Steve Cuden: 8.

Michael Mason: And I said, 22 8. And so, you know, go be sitting there trying to count it out. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know what? Really, Michael? It’s really not 22. It’s 12. 8. Okay, so then that helps us get a little better organizers.

Steve Cuden: How long have you been working with these folks?

Michael Mason: Five years. With just five years? yeah, almost. Yeah, I’d say four. Five. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: So you have a good sense of each other and where you go while you’re playing?

Michael Mason: Absolutely. It might as well call it a trio. That’s really laying a lot of this stuff down. But a lot of it’too is, recording techniques. The flute work is tremendously, intricate in regards to laying down melody structures and everything, because you understand sometimes melody is coming through the workstation. Now I got to get the flute onto that. And some of that could be pretty challenging because what you can do with your fingers on a keyboard is not necessarily what you could do with your flute.

Steve Cuden: Right. And you are still obviously playing the flute by hand. You’re not using a keyboard for that at all.

Michael Mason: No, that’s all. Yeah. All that flute is, is natural flute. And that’s why I practice flute every. Every day.

Steve Cuden: You still practicing many hours a day?

Michael Mason: I practice probably, an hour and 20 on the flute every day just to keep up, do new facilities and things like that. And then, the rest of the time I’d be composing or listening.

Steve Cuden: You know the great cellist Pablo Casalls.

Michael Mason: Yeah.

Steve Cuden: Once famously was asked why he continues to practice four or five hours a day. And he answered, because I think I’m making progress.

Michael Mason: Yeah, right. Well, yeah, I’m not a good flute player.

Steve Cuden: Oh, come on.

Michael Mason: No. I’m no James Galway. I consider myself an amateur with. With a decent facility.

Steve Cuden: I’d say you have better than a decent facility.

Michael Mason: Well, in order to keep just what you guys listen to in regards to my music, in order to just keep that you have to practice. I would tell every student in the world or anybody getting into their instrument, it’s going to be with you for life. You’re a student of the game.

Steve Cuden: What do you think keeps you disciplined? Do you just love it that much or is there something that you have to do to keep at it?

Michael Mason: Discipline. I mean, it’s almost like firefighting. I discipline myself. I’m up every day at a certain time. I usually don’t sleep past 7am Most of the time my body wakes up at 4:30 in the morning.

Steve Cuden: Is that for years of doing that?

Michael Mason: Years of practicing or years of firef fighting? And along with the practicing and trying to keep up with everything. So I’m just an early bird kind of guy.

Steve Cuden: And your music obviously keeps you going at it. Yeah. You love the music, I assume?

Michael Mason: Yeah, I time the day out when I’m gonna do water, do whatever I got to do, along with, you know, my family life and everything else that I’ve got to deal with, paying the bills and stuff like that. So there’s no way you want to be an artist. You got to love what you do. And then you got to dedicate yourself to some form of discipline to keep doing it, or else you’re just. You’ll fall into bad habits, like getting up too late, going out, partying too much, smoking dope, doing whatever you do. I don’t do that. I have a couple of drinks every day and that’s about what I limit myself to.

Steve Cuden: So let’s talk for a moment about Luminosity, which I thoroughly enjoyed listening to. Where did the ideas for these songs come from? Do you have a clue where these come from? Are they just coming through you from the ether?

Michael Mason: Sometimes I’ll hear something in my head. It may be just a base groove, something like that. And then I’ll lay the base groove down and then I’ll start working around the notation of that groove in relationship to key signatures. So let’s say I got a base group of C E flat to F back to C or E flat, you know, whatever. And then I find a chord structure, maybe they can go under that or over that. So then that’s how it all kind of evolves. another process would be I could be driving down the road and all of a sudden they hear something, the radio. And I’m listening to the background track of these things. I’m going, I think I got to elaborate on this. So I would kind of remember it in my head, come back and etch it down real fast. On my recording things and just say, okay, look, this is what I’m gonna try to do. and then things just start to evolve. It takes me probably three, four, five weeks to create a simple sketch for the composition itself. And then call in Geo and. And Danny and say, I think we got something.

Steve Cuden: Do you work those sketches out on the flute or on the keyboard?

Michael Mason: On the keyboard first, then the flute on the keyboard.

Steve Cuden: And do you work it out where it’s a piano sound, or is there a certain sound?

Michael Mason: Well, I can grab anything I want. At first, it’s concert, grand piano. I have to work it to hear the notation in the chord. Then I’ll start moving over to, the workstation in regards to sounds or bass sounds. Or maybe I want a musical effect, that I’m thinking is an African mode. And I’ll switch over to the workstation and go, I need, ethnic sounds of musical effects or something. And then all of a sudden, it’ll donate that material back to me in the key signatures I’m working in now, whether the format works or not as questionable. I also have tempo. I have. Man. I mean, these keyboards now create so much, we call them backdrops or seascaping, you know, behind things that ultimately sometimes change my mode of thinking. And now I’m often never giving up what I originally intended. But it may beennd my idea of meter timing. And then. So now we’ll adapt to that because I’ll find something else. That’s the problem with these, workstations. They’ll drive you crazy. I mean, I don’t like to use it as gimmick. It’s still solid, natural music. In order to duplicate it on stage, you still got to press the notes, you still got to play the notes, you still got to do the bass, you still got to do the drumming.

Steve Cuden: So your music, which is clearly in the world of jazz, I find it to be meditative. Do you think of it that way?

Michael Mason: It is meditative.

Steve Cuden: And so what do you do to find that meditative thing? Is it from nature? Is it just. You’re just finding it as you’re going? I personally don’t know how you get there, so I’m just curious if you can say how you do.

Michael Mason: I’m a spiritual person. How do I get there?

Steve Cuden: I. I mean, there’s something special about the quality of it. It’s. It’s very soothing to the soul.

Michael Mason: Sometimes the workstation will create a backdrop, you know, like voices or, an air sound or something like that. Yes, I’m a very meditative person because I do study religions a lot. I’m basically a Catholic. And I also study a lot of Buddhism. Now, am I a true Buddhist? No. Do I meditate? Yes. I don’t know sometimes. Even where it comes from.

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s what I was getting at. I think a lot of creative people don’t know where it comes from. And I’ve read many, many quotes from people where they say that the art comes through them from somewhere else. It comes through them from the universe or wherever it is they say. Or it comes as a bolt out of the blue where they didn’t think.

Michael Mason: Of it at all.

Steve Cuden: It just happens.

Michael Mason: All of the above. All the above for me. Yeah. I mean really. I mean some days I could be hit with something and be like, wow, yeah, okay, let’s I’mnna go down this road.

Steve Cuden: You know, I’m just curious. The titles of your songs too, you consistently come up with, I think titles that are evocative, they bring up an emotion or a feeling or a sense. Lots of titles of songs don’t. They sort of are on the head a little bit. But yours are evocative in particular. You have Prism, Northern Light, it’s this Way Reflection. I find those very interesting. And Drift, you have Drift. Where do those come from? Is it come before you write the songs? Do they trigger the songs or do they come after? Or is it sort of a mishmash.

Michael Mason: Of all of it? Both ways.

Steve Cuden: Both ways.

Michael Mason: Both ways. Sometimes I’ll have the idea or the like, you know, to create ah, like on the new album I think I got a tune called Dreams, you know. So I know that I created this song before I gave it the title, but the titles usually come a little bit later because I’m always waiting on all the other input, you, know, from other players or whatever because they could change the texture of something. And now ve I’ve lost maybe the original mood, but it’s still there underlying. So it’s hard to say. But most of my titles come from a spiritual point of view.

Steve Cuden: A spiritual point of view?

Michael Mason: Yes. A soul searching point of view inside each of us.

Steve Cuden: Do you find that sometimes where it goes in the process with the other musicians that it’s not at all what you want it to be? Does that ever happen?

Michael Mason: It does. Sometimes it can change drastically and then I’ll pull the tune and I’ll rework it maybe into a different fashion, which then will create a different mood, which then creates possibly a different title.

Steve Cuden: I think we Talked about this before from. If my memory is correct, clearly these are not songs that have lyrics to them. There’s no words. it’s pure music. Have you ever tried to put words to any of these?

Michael Mason: I think I talked to you before about this. We’re looking at vocalists that’ll produce vocal sounds.

Steve Cuden: But that’s just sounds, not words.

Michael Mason: No, no words. It would be hard. I mean, I could ask somebody. Hey, man, when you hear this tune, could you write me, ah, you know, a lyric line? A lot of artists do do that. Sure. You know, they’ll take an instrumental and all of a sudden, well, jazz is known for that. An instrumental tune. And then all of a sudden, know, Sarah Vnold come in and put words to it, to a line like as popular as Herbie Hancock’s, you know, Watermelon man or whatever. Watermelon man never had a set of words until somebody else came up with it and put it on there. Sure. Our maiden voyage or things like that.

Steve Cuden: But probably Birdland probably had words put on it much after the fact again.

Michael Mason: Absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely. So if it happens, it happens. I just don’t know when it will happen. I’ve got a couple interesting ladies that want to try to do something like that, but most of the, jazz singers I know, they’re doing, too many standards.

Steve Cuden: Standards. So they’re not doing new stuff.

Michael Mason: Well, if I was looking for anybody, something they can, you know, like an Algero or a scat singer, you know, someone that’snna produce sound. Not a lyrical message necessarily, other than off the title of the Tomb. When you give a songwriter a title, they’re off and running. Sure. Now they can do just about anything.

Steve Cuden: Do you know of a group called Snarky Puppy?

Michael Mason: No, I don’t. I probably do.

Steve Cuden: I think you’d enjoy. You should look up on the Internet. Snarky Puppy. It’s a strange name, but they’re very good.

Michael Mason: Okay. I’m, writing it down.

Steve Cuden: I am curious when I write. I write words. That’s what I do for a living. I’ve m written lots of lyrics and I’ve clearly written lots of scripts and books and so on.

Michael Mason: Right.

Steve Cuden: I am unable to write because I write with words. I’m, unable to write with certain kinds of distractions. I can’t write when I hear other people speaking. So in other words, I can’t write with the TV on. I can’t write with songs that have lyrics. So your kind of music is perfect for me to be able to put on as something I can have on while I’m using words in my head because I can think. Are you able to write with words playing? Are you able to write while there’people talking?

Michael Mason: No.

Steve Cuden: You have to have quiet.

Michael Mason: Yeah. That would distract me. Like, I couldn’t listen to a song with lyrics in the background while I’m creating.

Steve Cuden: That’s what I wondered. No, because there are people who can do that. I can’t do it. You say you can do it.

Michael Mason: Yeah. I mean, it was 3,000 miles away, maybe.

Steve Cuden: 3,000 miles away.

Michael Mason: No, no. That would be too distracting for me. There’s some people that are, you know, they’re able to do that. I can’t.

Steve Cuden: All right, you are still arranging your own work, then? Yeah, always. Always. And then the others come in and they contribute in some way to that arrangement.

Michael Mason: Yes, they do. Yes. Or they can sometimes alter it and provide me a better, better path, maybe.

Steve Cuden: And that is part of the Correct me if I’m wrong. That really is part and parcel of the jazz musician s creed that you bring in other people to that moment. It’s not something that’s rigidly written out ahead of time.

Michael Mason: Right. Jazz music or the improvisational world of, music is contributory. No one can claim the whole thing, so to speak. You know what I mean? It takes contributors. To me, it’s not like, writing a, Well, even that. Even in rock music or progressive rock or whatever, a group of guys get together, man, and it’s. It may be the one guy that brings it. And like the Beatles. I mean, just like one guy. I got a song. I’m coming in the studio. Here I go, George Harrison, Bub bom bum D. You know, okay, whatever. And then they get a hold of it and they’re like, going, okay, you know, George, we really don’t like this thing. But then George will go, well, coming back, whatever it is. And then all of a sudden, they’re creating a collective sound. And the main body of work, obviously will go to the original. Hopefully the original writer. But that is just the nature of, making music, man. There is no. I don’t care if it’s Taylor Swift. I don’t care who it is. They beg, borrowed and steeled in order to get their deviation of their new proposal to the music society. There’s few geniuses, the geniuses happened back in 15 and 1600s.

Steve Cuden: Well, that’s for sure.

Michael Mason: Yeah, you know, like Mozart, Beethoven, Bach.

Steve Cuden: Yeah, sure.

Michael Mason: Well, yeah, I’ll sit there. But guess what? All our music comes from that Point of erro. No question of understanding notation. You know, everything that we do, you know, the 12 diatonic scales, all that. I mean, you know, Schoenberg. We’re reinventing. Reinventing.

Steve Cuden: Yes, for sure.

Michael Mason: That’s all we’re doing.

Steve Cuden: You are doing the classic. You’re standing on the shoulders of giants.

Michael Mason: You have to.

Steve Cuden: Absolutely.

Michael Mason: No, we get a lot of artists out there that served with ego, and that’s horrible.

Steve Cuden: Well, at this point, there are literally tens of millions of recorded songs in the world.

Michael Mason: Oh. Oh, my God. It’s unbelievable.

Steve Cuden: It’s unbelievable how much is out there. It really is. And so that’s part of the issue that I’m sure you go through all the time, is how do you break through the clutter of everything?

Michael Mason: Sometimes we run across stuff that, Like I’ll be composing, whatever, and all of a sudden I’ll listen to it or I’ll run across it, or one of my players go, hey, Mike, I think this guy’s got a baseline just like yours. I’BE like, okay. And I don’t find that unusual. There’s only so many bass line in the world to a groove of any type of music, you know, so to speak. And then I’ll check it out and I’ll say, oh, yeah, you know. But you know what? It’s in a totally different time signature. Or maybe it’s a little this whatever, you know, because we don’t want to infringe on copycing type of anything. And our music, I don’t believe is ever resembles really anything that I.

Steve Cuden: No, but you can’t help absorbing the world.

Michael Mason: Exactly. It’s like any of the lawsuits. You hear that, you know, they come in like. Like, What was the big one? Was what Harrison’s. My Sweet Lord. The big lossuit. I forgot the name of the tomb. The Shangriaz or whatever it is they tried to swe.

Steve Cuden: Yeah, I’ve forgotten it too.

Michael Mason: The three chord progression or whatever. Well, that three chord progression has been written a thousand times. It’s a question of the melody, you know, maybe that goes over it. You know what I mean? Or something like that.

Steve Cuden: So do you play other people’s songs in order to then find inspiration? For instance, do you play classical music hoping to be inspired? Somewhere in there I play class of.

Michael Mason: Music to enjoy listening to it. I cannot play Mozart’s Concerto and D anymore. I used to be able to do maybe the first movement on flute. It’s too difficult for me at the diffic. Well, it is. I’m not a Classical. I mean, I studied classical. That’s where I came from. I was kicked out of every conservatory you know of. I’m serious. I think I told before.

Steve Cuden: you have told me that before, but I’ve forgotten’m glad you reminded me.

Michael Mason: I’m not a disciplined, classist. I’m an improvisational flutist. There’s a big difference.

Steve Cuden: So I guess what I’m trying to get at, and I’m. Maybe I’m asking a poor question, is do you sit there and play on your flute other music, whether it’s classical or modern, whether it’s jazz or something else, and while you’re playing it, you become inspired to create something new?

Michael Mason: Absolutely, yes.

Steve Cuden: That’s how you do it.

Michael Mason: Yeah. Once in a while, I’ll be up, I’ll hear on the radio. I’ll be upstairs. My wife will be up there. I’m like, going, yeah, what is that? Sometimes I hear something, so. Or maybe it’s on a cd. I’ll start playing along with it. You, I’ll say, oh, okay, cool, man. Now I can maybe I’m gonna go down this melodic road too. And that creates something new.

Steve Cuden: Do you get feedback from your fans? Do you get email and stuff from fans?

Michael Mason: Yes, we get. We get a lot of.

Steve Cuden: So what I’m curious then is do they ever tell you something about what you’re doing that then inspires you further to do something new?

Michael Mason: They just say, man, we love it. They don’re like, what you’re saying? They’re like, hey, man, we’re on the road to Minnesota. We put your CD in the car. Mean, we just love it. We’re up in the cabin, we’re doing this, you doing that’it’s. Like our backdrop, you know, of what we do and how we’re living our life. And they appreciate it.

Steve Cuden: Well, it takes your blood pressure down is what it does.

Michael Mason: Maybe it takes yours down, but it raises yours. Because we’re putting it together and trying to get your.

Steve Cuden: The end result that you had to go through with blood, sweat and tears, I get to enjoy. To take my blood pressure down.

Michael Mason: That’s right. Well, in the end, though, I hope when I listen and I don’t listen to my music, once it’s done and we’re done with the. What they call the mastering session, part of it, we’ll hear it from A to Z, so to speak. And I can’t, no more until, I hear it on YouTube or something like that, you know.

Steve Cuden: You play it live too, though.

Michael Mason: Yeah, no, we don’t play live yet. We’re waiting on the big contract to come through because it’s. I think I told you before it’this is a seven apiece group that has to be put on a stage. They’re looking at us now to maybe perform it at a couple of big theaters, in Chicago and a couple other townents. But until that solidifies, it’s a big investment to get this stage.

Steve Cuden: Oh, big investment. That’s expensive.

Michael Mason: At least 20 grand just to rehearse it and get it up there. And then I don’t even know how you’d get reimbursed from it.

Steve Cuden: Well, you get reimbursed by doing a contract and having somebody give you the money. That’s how.

Michael Mason: Well, I mean, I’ll take my flute out and go sit in and play at different places with other groups and stuff. That’s not an issue. No big deal. I mean, I’m always asked to do that.

Steve Cuden: And you find yourself being asked regularly for that?

Michael Mason: Yeah, but a lot of times I turn people down because I don’t know what they’re playing, you know, I mean, you know, hey man, you’re doing some jazz stuff. Okay, good, I’ll show up because they know I know certain things, you know, like. And they know that I know Wayne Shorter, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, you know, they know that I can improvise and dance on that stuff, you know, so to speak. I couldn’t show up. Well, it. Once in a while we show up with the top 40 group.

Steve Cuden: Yeah. Really?

Michael Mason: Oh, yeah, the club groups. Mike, would you come out m Bring the flute out. I need you to JY on, all along the Watchtower. I. No problem. I’ll see you tonight.

Steve Cuden: Do you still enjoy it?

Michael Mason: Oh, I love it. It’s awesome. That’s where I came from. 60s and 70s.

Steve Cuden: If it wasn’t for that, I. I mean, live performing. You still enjoy performing in front of an audience?

Michael Mason: Absolutely, absolutely. I wish we could really get out there and do. Do this type of thing.

Steve Cuden: Have you ever thought about recording live U?

Michael Mason: we have not this particular group back in the past. We have. I think I told you again, I. I had nothing but live recordings back in the day, with Canterbury, the progressive rock groups that I started way back in U. In the 70s. Yeah, I’m no, I’m not foreign to that. That was a whole new era.

Steve Cuden: Well, yeah, I mean that was. You guys were in those days forging what we have now almost.

Michael Mason: I would say. I would say yes. Yeah.

Steve Cuden: So somebody calls you and says, come on out. We’re going to play X, Y or Z. We would like you to do it. And you say, sure. Is there something special that you do to prepare for that? Is there something, some way that you psych yourself up for it? Do you do anything physically? How do you prepare for a performance?

Michael Mason: Well, I kind of know what the groups about it, what they’re asking me to do. So I’ll show up. I’ll usually have, my own mic or something like that that I know, you know, from my own type of sound that I want. And no, I don’t prepare. I just show up and go, what. What key we playing in, guys? And they’ll say, hey, man, we’re starting to tun B flat major. And then it’s gonna go to this. Like, go, okay, let’s go.

Steve Cuden: And it’s all off of you listening to what they’re playing and playing to it.

Michael Mason: Right. My ear is. Most musicians that we work with and that we deal with have an ear for a key signature. And especially if it’s jazz and improvisational music, we’re well prepared.

Steve Cuden: So I’ve got to ask you about teaching. I know you taught Firefighters for many years, but you also have musical students, too.

Michael Mason: Is that correct you to. Not for quite a few years now.

Steve Cuden: Not for a while. Do you miss it at all or you don’t miss it?

Michael Mason: I would love to get back into it, but you got to have the right mindset when you’re taking young people or even, professionals. I’ve had professionals that I’ve worked with that want to learn, flute improvisation or something like that. The real difficult ones are the beginners or the people that come out and they’re like, say, 15, 16, 17 years old, and they heard me play at the high school or something because, you know, a while ago I was having my quartets or quintets play at high schools, and then we’d have what we call a masterc class afterwards. And then they’d looked me up and they’want to learn maybe some flute stuff or whatever else, you know, in regards to improvis, usually it was basically intonation or articulation or something like that. And, you got to be careful. I am not what I would consider a master teacher. A maestro, so to speak.

Steve Cuden: Are you afraid of screwing them up?

Michael Mason: No, I’m not afraid of screwing them up. I’m afraid of what I may give them. That may become a bad habit. That’s not necessarily a bad habit. For instance, A flutist would come to me and say, hey, man, I want to learn how to improvise. How do you do that weird sound you get you. Or some goopfy technique I’m doing? And I’ll say, okay, yeah, I’ll be more glad to show you, but here’s the things you got to do to get to that point. So I’ll say, well, you got to learn theseh, these nharmonics. I want you to blow Marmonics. And they’re like, blowning. They’re like, wow, man. I go, just work at it. I give him some notation to work at that’d say, do that. And then the next thing you know, they’re going to a classical instructor, and the classical instructors going, whoa, who. Who taught you to do that? It’s not that it’s wrong or it’s right. It’s just a different approach, you know?

Steve Cuden: And they say to that instructor, it’s just some guy who got tossed out of every conservatory in America’s right.

Michael Mason: And I tell them that, you know, I’ve studied with some great people, and they’ve always told me that I am just not disciplined in classical repertoire.

Steve Cuden: But it’s not laziness. You just don’t want to have that discipline. Or is it laziness?

Michael Mason: I don’t want to have that discipline. I’m too busy always improvising. I know it’s maybe not right, but I don’t want to practice the Mozart concerto and D for the rest of my life. Sure. Well, you know, along with the rest of the repertoire. That’s where, I’m not that talented, because if I was an orchestra player, you know, Chicago Symphony Orchestra, and I’ve studied under Donald Peck, you know, when they put a chart in front of you to play Tzaikovsky’s third flute part, these guys are able to read it right off the page, facilitate it, do what they do. How do they do it? Scales.

Steve Cuden: Scale.

Michael Mason: Lots and lots of scales. Lots of..udes lots of. I’ve got volumes and volumes of exercises and audes and arpeggios, and I’ll just take a book one day and just go, now can Iember. Some guys play it right out of memory. I go, really? Whoa, dude, I can’t do that. I can’t memorize the entire Mozart concerto and D for flute. I can remember parts of it. All you need to do is watch James Galway perform, or any major classical flutist. They hardly look at the page because.

Steve Cuden: They’Ve played it so much.

Michael Mason: Well, they Practiced their living asses off. But I think I told you before, there are just some gifts from God that were given to us as human beings.

Steve Cuden: Absolutely.

Michael Mason: And we are so grateful to have these people to hear. And I’m not one of them.

Steve Cuden: So all I know is I like what I hear and that’s all that counts. And for an audience member, that really is all that counts. Do you either like it or you don’t like it? You know, I agree it’s ah, opinion and just. Do you get it or do you not get it? It’s that simple. It’s like looking at a piece of art in a museum. You either get it or you don’t get it. If you don’t get it, you walk away.

Michael Mason: It strikes your soul. It’s your soul.

Steve Cuden: Exactly right. Exactly right. I’m curious. Are you still physically working out like you did when you were a firefighter? Were you. I know you were doing exercising almost every day. Are you still doing that?

Michael Mason: I exercise every day. I usually do 40 to 45 minutes a day of weights and different exercises.

Steve Cuden: And that helps you with your arms, which you need, obviously.

Michael Mason: Well, it’s not so much that is that I just want to stay as physically fit as possible for you. I have a bad osteo arthritis, have a bone disease that’s really starting to take over, you know, fighting certain physical elements. So I work out every day to back that off. You know what I mean? Gotta keep going.

Steve Cuden: Oh, I understand, I understand.

Michael Mason: Like keep walking, man, you know, get up.

Steve Cuden: Exactly right. Use it or lose it.

Michael Mason: Exactly. I guess that’s a better way of saying it. Thank you.

Steve Cuden: Do you also do things to keep your lungs going?

Michael Mason: Playing the flute, that’s what does it. Well, it’s. It’s very strange, you know, it’s a diaphragm thing. It’s everything. So, you know, it’s freerasing. You’re moving a lot of air for an hour straight. I’m not saying my lips, the thing is attached to my l. I have to take short breaks all the time, you know. Well, this ain’t going right. Better back off a little bit. Get the ambucire recentered. Take a deep breath. Blow this out. Sometimes you can inhale too m much and you become overextended or distended. And now you can’t perform. So you got to be careful the amount of air you taken in, the amountount of air you put out.

Steve Cuden: You’ve lost me on that last one. Explain that. A little more. You can take in too Much air. What happens?

Michael Mason: Well, it’s like the same form of hyperventilation. You keep taking it in and you think’re this is another discipline of fluteke playing. Or any wind player has to know the amount of airr he has left, what’s in reserve, what he can expel out to maintain a specific phrase, so to speak. So that takes another form of discipline within the plane. Not only the tongue, the lips, but the air.

Steve Cuden: Well, it’s all of a piece. You’re using every part of your body, basically.

Michael Mason: And you got the little fingers and you got, you know, the arm. Well, you know what? Yeah, it could get a little tired now and then. But you know what that means. You’re playing too long, stupid. Put it down. Take, you know, like Miles Davis used to say with, with Colrane and I, you know, he just. Coltrane was. He would just keep going crazy now if you ever heard Colal Trne. But, you know, he’s just all over the place, and he’d be playing within a piece, like a Miles piece or whatever. And he’s got his sol and he’s just going and going and going. And he, you know, you can’t stop. You can’t shut him down, you know, and that’s all right. But Miles told him once he goes, hey, man, I just. I have to keep saying something. And Miles said, why don’t you just take the horn away from your lips, man, and then think, you know. Because Coldtrane was, an explorer. And that’s what a lot of us jazz musicians are. We. We’re constantly exploring. You give us a solo, we’re not sure if it’s going to go 12 bars, 16 bars, 32, 64 bars. Could be anything. But that’s what’s great about the interaction of a quartet or a quintet. You know, they’re listening, they’re hey, man, is he going? Are we going? That’s what’s great about jazz and improvisational music. You’re always on the edge, and the audience is with you on that edge.

Steve Cuden: They re like, so as you’re playing, how do the others know when you’re gonna come out of the solo if you don’t know when you’re coming out?

Michael Mason: They know the form and they know that we’re gonna be okay, man. You’re gonna take 16, you’re gonna take 32. if it goes longer, we know how to stay with you, you know. But they know where it’s going. They know the next changeain.

Steve Cuden: That’s the key is that they have a clue as to where things are. Is there a signal that you give or do they just know?

Michael Mason: Could be a visual signal. It could be just that. They know the music so well. They know who the next soloist will be. If there is a second soloist after the first solos, which many times there is. and they know the form of the piece. Like we can have A form, you know what I’m saying? It could have an A form which is set over a set of chords. It’s a 12 bar a form, let’s say of a melody with a baseline. Boom, bo, bo. You know now, right, that’s your open. Then when I climb on the melody or the chord comes in, that’s still an open. Then when the melody comes in, that’s A. That starts a bound. You know what I mean? And now the whole form, A done. Good. Now we’re going to move on to B. B is maybe the chorus of what we would call melodically or whatever. Of course. Ah, so it’s ab. Then it’s AB again. And then we’ll go to C. And C will be maybe a connection point to rotate back. We’ll play the A section again. We’ll let that go for the melodic, reinstatement. And then from that it goes to solo. So now the soloist picks it up and he says, I am soloing over A, B and C and over A. One more set and then I’m going to shut up. And the next soloist comes in on the A again. And see a lot of audience. That’s why’it’s constantly in motion. You know, it’s in motion, but the audience just rides the wave. See?

Steve Cuden: Exactly right. And that wave is cool. When you’re in the audience and you’re feeling that. And it is a feeling. It’s not an intellectual thing. It’s an emotional thing.

Michael Mason: No, we don’t want. If it was intellectual, it’d be boring. People would start saying, I can’t handle this.

Steve Cuden: It would be boring. You want it to be emotional. That’s true for all of the storytelling arts. And I consider music to be a storytelling art.

Michael Mason: Absol.

Steve Cuden: And in fact, you put titles on these songs and you put a title on your alum because in a way you are telling stories. And I think that that’s the way it should be. Well, I’ve been having just, another. The third of a series of conversations with Michael Mason and we’re going to wind the show down just a little bit. You’ve clearly been around a while and you’ve shared stories with us before and I’m wondering if you have maybe another story that’s either weird, quirky, offbeat, strange, or just plain funny from your. All of your many years doing this.

Michael Mason: The only other one that have would be. It was a, club date in the city of Chicago. I come in with the flutes. Everything’s ready to go. You know, we got the, the stage is kind of set up. It’s a relatively decent club in the city. And we’re working and everything’s going. The sound check was great. Everything was great. And we get up there and we start to tune off. I, you know’m counting it off and they’re going. And then all of a sudden there’s this. I don’t know how it got in there. It was well, this was, I believe it was the one of the Chicago jazz festivals way back before it became the jazz festival. I’m sitting there and then all of a sudden I’m ready to play and introduce. First time we hear it, the there’s a bird that just flies through the stage in between all of us. And I’m like going, wow, what the hell is that? You know, I’m like, man. And we hear them. There’s a lot of birds up in the rafters because they had a big canopy over the crowd, you know what I mean, on the stage. But the crowd was out there. And then all of a sudden I’m playingned and this thing comes through again. Parks his ass on the end of my flute, little chipper thing, you know, and everybody’s liking. I’m going, what, what, what’s you know, what’s up the next, you know, I just took a glimpse of it and it’s gone. It flew away. And then my drummer kind of told me, he goes, you know, Mike, he says, there must be a God over your shoulder because man, there was a sparrow that just landed on the end of your flute. I said, get out of here. Nobody ever got a picture of it, but apparently it happened.

Steve Cuden: That’s pretty wonderful.

Michael Mason: That’s pretty crazy.

Steve Cuden: That’s a bird that really wanted to be up close to your music.

Michael Mason: No, it’s. Yeah, it’s probably because of those atrocious notes because I was playing some really ofant guard stuff, really high shriling whistle stuff and everything. You know, just doing my thing. It may have attracted like a spir. You know how high pitched birds sound.

Steve Cuden: Sure, of course, of course.

Michael Mason: Of course. There’s times when I’d go out in the woods, just to, back in the day, just trying to mimic bird calls or something like that.

Steve Cuden: Did they respond to you?

Michael Mason: I don’t know if they did or not, but I thought it was cool because Eric Dolphi did it.

Steve Cuden: That’s a pretty good person to emulate, that’s for sure. All right, so last question for you today, Michael. what’s the, the, best piece of advice that you can give to those who are just starting out in the business or maybe they’re in a little bit, trying to get to that next level?

Michael Mason: You know, it’s not the end of the world. If it’s something you’re checking out and it doesn’t work out, that’s fine. But if you really got a heart for it, pursue it. Get a good teacher and don’t let anybody ever say to you that you’re not good enough, because you are. Deep down, we’re all good enough. There’s certain talents that everybody has. You don’t have to be a James Galway. You don’t have to be a John Coltrane to make your mark.

Steve Cuden: I think that’s very wise advice, and I think that that holds true for most of the arts. You don’t get to the top of the heap without spending a lot of time, effort and energy working on it to get there.

Michael Mason: Years could be years.

Steve Cuden: Be prepared and like you say, discipline and digging in and keep going at it.

Michael Mason: That’s right.

Steve Cuden: Michael Mason, this has been a lot of fun for me to talk to you for the third time, and I thank you very much for your time, your energy, and of course, your fabulous wisdom. I greatly appreciate it, Steve.

Michael Mason: It’s always great to spend time with you, man. Pass the word. We love you. Take care and keep doing a great job because you do o well.

Steve Cuden: Thank you, sir. And as promised now to end today’s show, Michael has given us a gift of his serene music. So please sit back and enjoy Michael Mason’s beautiful composition moments from his album Luminosity. m m m. m m. And so weve ve come to the end of today’story beat. If you like this episode, wont you please take a moment to give us a comment, rating or review on whatever app or platform youe listening to. Your support helps us bring more great story beat episodes to you. Storybeat is available on all major podcast apps and platforms, including Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, iHeartRadio, tune in and many others. Until next time, I’m Steve Cuden and may all your stories be unforgettable.